Canyon CF utlimate frame kaput

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23. Juni 2008
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Hi

sorry for my language, but I can read/speak german, but not really write it..

I just want to see what fellow bikers make of this situation:

Six months ago I bought a Ultimate CF carbon MTB. Untill april I did approximately 2000km's with it. 4 weeks ago when cleaning the bike I noticed following:
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http://eng-it.be/pictures/image001.jpg


The leftside mainstay broke just above the pats. I contacted the BENELUX agent of canyon, and transported the frame to the dutch shop. He aknowledge that this indeed looked rather strange, and since there where absolutely no marks on the frame whatsoever, (e.g. the frame did not have a crash) canyon would send a replacement quite quickly.

After 3 weeks later, I got a call from him to ask wether canyon is aloud to saw my frame up to do an investigation. Naturally I agreed. A few days later I got a so called "test report".

Apparently they concluded that the failure was due to "Überbelastung"

They offered me a crash replacement frame for half the price.

Not to mention I'm really offended by this offer since I did not crash the bike.

It is my believe this frame broke because of braking strains (I know of some Kraftstoff & cube frames who suffered the same desease... all were ofcourse replaced under warranty)

The reason I'm posting here is simple: I wanted to know if canyon behaves this way on it's home market too?

What do you guys think?

regards,
kris
 
Yesterday I got news from a Material Expert:

The crack starts right above the glued aluminium insert. Meaning the spot which handles most of the load.
The crack apparently started on the backside of the tube. This is exactly the spot where a crack would appear because of the aforementioned Brake-strain.
Since there is no delamination the crack will be caused by sudden tension.

He concluded that the crack most likely is not caused by a crash...
 
I see your point, and I do not quite understand that Canyon is trying to sell you a new frame under their crash replacement policy.
According to what you wrote, Canyon stated that your frame broke while suffering a much too important stress(?"Überbelastung"). What is not clear to me, is how they came to the conclusion that this "Überbelastung" and the resulting damage are under your sole responsibility. I mean, if you're under 120kg and you've not been freeriding, it would be interesting to have more information about the expertise that led to this conclusion. Do you have a complete summary, or did they just tell you "Überbelastung"?
May be if you get an official second opinion and have it documented, they'd change their mind. To tell you the truth I doubt it and I'm not sure the hassle's worth it...
 
According to the Discussions I had:

As long as they don't see anything particular in the structure of the carbon, it's not their warranty...

I know it will be a lot of hassle and probably the outcome will not change... (in fact I already bougth a new frame :D)

I just want to let other people know what's going on, so they don't make the same mistake as I made...

Anyway, I'm waiting for the cut-up frame to arrive home, so I can send it to a belgian University Lab to do some tests...

Next up is the lawyer to see what the consumer rights in Europe are truly worth...
 
According to the Discussions I had:

As long as they don't see anything particular in the structure of the carbon, it's not their warranty...

I see...

I know it will be a lot of hassle and probably the outcome will not change... (in fact I already bougth a new frame :D)

What did you buy?


I just want to let other people know what's going on, so they don't make the same mistake as I made...

Huh?!? What mistake are you talking about?

Anyway, I'm waiting for the cut-up frame to arrive home, so I can send it to a belgian University Lab to do some tests...

Let us know about the outcome, that could be interesting.

Next up is the lawyer to see what the consumer rights in Europe are truly worth...
I wouldn't bet on this being worth it either.
 
Bought me a Kraftstoff X1 Evo frameset...


Mistake? My mistake was to buy the canyon in the first :)
No I just want to make clear that it's not all hunky dory when buying a bike online... and that there are sometimes other considerations besides the pricing...

I will keep you posted...
 
The only thing I see is a designproblem if they don't see anything in the carbon stucture.
I also have seen the same problem on the new Trek Fuelex and the frames have been replaced by Trek. Canyon should do the same.

Hence the ellipsis ;) . I guess unless the problem shows up for more than a small minority of CF ultimate owners, Canyon will not call back anything, as they would not consider a small number of such cases to be relevant (as far as the frame design is concerned). If they cannot see any default in the structure itself, I understand their point. I do not know if this here compares well to the Trek recall, as I know nothing about it. It seems to me Canyon trust their design (shouldn't they?), given the irrelevant (I guess) rate of broken frame they had on this model. I guess what could be discussed here, is whether Canyon should treat this as a warranty case or not.
 
Hence the ellipsis ;) . I guess unless the problem shows up for more than a small minority of CF ultimate owners, Canyon will not call back anything, as they would not consider a small number of such cases to be relevant (as far as the frame design is concerned). If they cannot see any default in the structure itself, I understand their point. I do not know if this here compares well to the Trek recall, as I know nothing about it. It seems to me Canyon trust their design (shouldn't they?), given the irrelevant (I guess) rate of broken frame they had on this model. I guess what could be discussed here, is whether Canyon should treat this as a warranty case or not.


Trek did no recall as far as I know of. But they made some adjustments on the new frame. The frame just collapsed.
Waranty or not. I call it service! And if it's just one frame, why not replacing it? Fot them it's peanuts and the customer is satisfied.
 
I doubt if they ever do an actual recall, this is the same as admitting you made serious design mistakes...

Usually they are silently replaced per customer...
 
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