Fraud- Buyer didn't pay

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15. Januar 2017
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Hello,

I've got a problem with my recent sell with the user "marinagirl",

Long story short... we had a deal 100€ for my go pro, as it's a two way street.. we gotta trust one another, so I've send the item eventho I didn't had the money on my account ,as i said we gotta trust one another he kad some reviews all postive as a buyer-most of them we're saying that he'd pay the item very quickly, didn't cross my mind that I'm not gonna be that guy he's gonna cross.

I contacted him after a few days after he said he paid for the item to check with his bank did the tranfer went thru he did reply that he will, after that nothing..well I'll attach some printsceens of our messeges.

I even sent him to pay me VIA Revolut (a british bank, quick transfer like paypal)

I really don't know what to do..It's not alot of money, but still.. it's a road trip to a bike park for me.
 
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scylla

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Dabei seit
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Hi,
first of all: if you do private auctions via Whatsapp, that has nothing to do with the "Bikemarkt" here, or with the Mtb-News platform in general. Hence I moved your thread to a better fitting subforum, the subforum "Vorschläge, Feedback und Hilfe" is for things directly related to the Mtb-News platform.
And it's not so cool to publish private messages, so I removed those screenshots.

I can understand that you are angry to be crossed in a private deal. If you had a deal and sent the item but never received the payment, this is fraud indeed.
However, it will be complicated, time consuming, and potentially even more costly to do anything about it. Private deals are a case for the civil law, hence going to the police and reporting fraud will not help you, instead you have to take a lawyer and go to civil justice court. In case you win, the costs for this have to be payed for by the other party, but if you lose or the case cannot be decided or it is settled in mutual agreement you lose a lot of money for the lawyer. So you have to weigh the chances and potential costs of this, versus your loss of the 100€.
You could try to threaten the buyer with intending to take a lawyer and going to court. Maybe this helps already.
You should also send a formal reminder with a deadline, best via letter, even better via "Einschreiben mit Rückschein" (registered letter with acknowledgment of receipt) before you take any legal action.

Most importantly, take it as a learning curve. Never send an item before you received payment for it, no matter how much you want to trust people! There were indications for bad intentions, if you would have looked closely. The photo of the bank transfer in your Whatsapp conversation showed the screen before the transfer was confirmed! This should have rung your alarm clocks. It is how it is now, but try to learn from it and be more cautious in the future. There's a saying which goes like: "Trust is good, control is better".
 
Dabei seit
15. Januar 2017
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Sorry for the printscreens if they we're breaking some rules.. just wanted to give a better picture of the problem.
Didn't really know the rules about selling, first time sale here.. now I know.. but still..if i did.. would it help in this case?

I'm not really angry, more dissapointed.. it's not that much about the money, but still it's more about the principal.

Didn't even think about the police..as far as i know..it has to be more then 150€ to file a report?


well he was a bit shady, but people are weird sometimes.. doesn't know english, maybe an older guy..
like the qoute "Trust is good, control is better"

as for the account https://bikemarkt.mtb-news.de/en/user/400200
 

scylla

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Sorry for the printscreens if they we're breaking some rules.. just wanted to give a better picture of the problem.
Didn't really know the rules about selling, first time sale here.. now I know.. but still..if i did.. would it help in this case?

I'm not really angry, more dissapointed.. it's not that much about the money, but still it's more about the principal.

Didn't even think about the police..as far as i know..it has to be more then 150€ to file a report?


well he was a bit shady, but people are weird sometimes.. doesn't know english, maybe an older guy..
like the qoute "Trust is good, control is better"

as for the account https://bikemarkt.mtb-news.de/en/user/400200

Ah ok, then it was Bikemarkt-related. Sorry, I mistook this cause the title of your screenshots said "Whatsapp".

Yeah, disappointment is true, people sometimes can be really shit. It happens. But if it helps for your consolation: to my experience this is not a regular case, especially not in the Bikemarkt. I guess in the end a theme-specific community helps to shy away most people with bad intentions. That you had this case in your very first deal here is quite some bad luck!
For my part, I buy and sell in the Bikemarkt regularly for years now, and so far I only had one case (out of over a hundred transactions) of what I guess was attempted fraud (one guy claimed to have sent the money and asked for the item to be shipped, but the mony never arrived, and he didn't answer my queries afterwards... just like your case, only that I was cautious enough not to ship the item in advance).

If you follow some basic rules for your safety, especially selling is quite safe:

- always look at the reviews and the profile of the person you deal with. There is also this thing called "Vertrauensstufe" (trust network) where people who know each other in real life or have had so many contacts that they see each other as absolutely trustworthy can claim their mutual trust. The higher this number "Vertrauensstufe", the more people trust this person.
The account you dealt with had some older "neutral" reviews, stating there were some problems with the payment. Reading something like this in the reviews should alert you. When in doubt, better not do the deal, there's always someone else who will want to buy it eventually. At least be extra cautious that everything is done correctly.

- always wait for the money to really be on your account before you ship the item, at least if you don't know the person you deal with really well. This also pops up as a safety hint in the Bikemarkt when you mark an item as "sold".

- for documentation reasons (in case something goes wrong) always use the chat in the Bikemarkt for all communication related to the deal. Never something else like Whatsapp.

Another hint: better not use the "normal" Paypal function meant for commercial deals (the one where fees are charged). This is said to be safe for both sides. In reality however, it is a known method for fraud, as Paypal acts very buyer-friendly and commonly doesn't really look into the case on the seller-side. People with bad intentions can use this, as they pay you via Paypal, you think everything is fine and ship the item, and after they received the parcel they go to Paypal and claim that the item is defect or something. Paypal will withdraw the money from you without checking further. So you lost the goods, the money, and on top of it all even the fees for Paypal.
Better/safer for the seller-side: only use the (free of charge) "Friends" function on Paypal.

Buying is naturally more risky in private deals, as you send your money before you get hold of the goods. So this is really about trust, and you have to be way more cautious.
I know, this is not like you would want a good "ideal" world to be, because it's not nice having to mistrust people as a basic principle. But as you see, sometimes it's better to be safe, just in case.
 
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15. Januar 2017
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I did check the reviews, but that was like 2016.. maybe he/ she was a dumb lil kid, grew up and ended up being normal (quess not hahah)

noted for the communication via bikemarkt.

thanks for the replies guys.. since my hands are tied at least I hope I'm gonna "save" someone from this seller/ buyer with my negative review

good talk
best regards
 
Dabei seit
25. Mai 2018
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Mitten im Erzgebirge
Since I know such behaviour from other marketplaces, I never send anything before receiving the payment.
Maybe if you post the city of the buyer here, another user can contact you via PM for the complete address and visit the buyer.
I did this once and it solved the case.
 
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15. Januar 2017
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Well, in everything bad, you get something good out of it

Went to check the city, he deleted my phone number because I can't see the profile image I sent him a messege in PM, but he didn't opened it.

The city is Bad Dürkheim

if someone would do such a thing, well.. he has a few beers on me! :D
 
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