Old idea's never die....

Jeroen

Rigid Fork Service Centre
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22. August 2001
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Weil Flo es so gerne nochmal anseht, hiermal eine beitrag die vielleicht nicht komplett hier ins Classic foren gehört, aber doch etwas mit einige Klasschen einflüssen entstanden ist. Bin schon lange nicht mehr auf dieses Forum gewesen, aber mein Klassik-herz schlagt immer noch wie bevor. Bin seit 3+ jahren mit meine Breezer+WTB Dirt Drop lenker unterwegs als singlespeeder, zwischen die 'geared' fahrräder die ich auch immer noch sehr gerne fahren.

Hab mir in Mai definitiv entscheidet; ich muss ein 'richtige' singlespeeder haben, aber eine Potts kann ich mir jetzt nicht leisten. Via ein gute freund eine amerikanischer Rahmenbauer kennen gelernt die im Toscane, Italiën ein kleines werkstatt vertriebt...

Ich hab das ganze projekt auf u.a. MTBR.com mit bilder vom verlauf, weil das rahmen gebaut werd, hingestellt. Hier die komplette sachen nochmal für Sie weil es verschiedene verbindnissen mit die vergangenheit hat...
 
After cruising 2+ yrs on my 1994 Breezer Storm as a singlespeed with Dirt Drop bars, I found it was about time to get a proper dedicated singlespeed. I am a framebuilder wannabee and wanted to build a frame myself this year. Steel would be the prime choice, but for a singlespeed I have lusted titanium for quite a while. Have had some Ti frame experiences, which didn't quite came out as planned, but with new experiences I re-set my goals to get me a Ti frame built to my specs. This would be my final ordeal before start building something myself.

Building something myself would be very time consuming and I didn't want to wait so long for a singlespeed to finish. Wanting a ti frame, I saw the only right choice in getting one made.

Teamed up with a very cool American guy (Darren Mark Crisp), living in Italy and started this project. We are reaching the end of the project and hope to pick up the finished product next weekend.


Design goals;

I wanted to keep the frame as classy, simplistic as possible. Everything in the right place, for the right job, no extra frills, bells or other stuff. I have a WTB Phoenix SE frameset (in the process of making it a complete bike) and having a great admiration for guys like Steve Potts and Charlie Cunningham, made me like the idea behind the geometry of the Phoenix and its predicesors (Cunninghams). The fairly compact frames they made, have quite some seatpost extension. I started riding Drop bars 3 years back and really liked them. I began to realize I got more and more 'trouble' adjusting back to a flat bar. The Phoenix will get a Dirt Drop, but this SS bike should get one as well.

Short list of the geo/frame specs:

-super compact frame
-stiff frame, yet complaint vertically
-somewhat raised front end (headtube) for the Dirt Drops
-full rigid geo (no suspension correction up front)
-complaint (vertically) design with a tall seatpost
-Breezer style, ss specific dropouts
-disc brake only
-EBB shell for PhilWood eccentric with set screws

I took a moderate seatpost length and drew up the frame height for this frame a few cm's above the line were normally 'limit' would be on your seatpost. This is the height for the frame, in my case approx. 14". Toptube length as on most of my other bikes and which works for me with the DD bars; 565mm's in a horizontal plane (effective). Fork height 400mms with 39mms of offset. Side note; this bike will get a custom made Ti seatpost to fit the frame as well.

Additional design spec's;

-eccentric turned headtube, just since it looks nicer than just a straight tube and leaving the rear of the tube unmachined for better weldablitiy of the top and downtubes.
-straight rear end, no s-bends, just straight tubes, like on a Phoenix frame
-all, I repeat, all round tubes.

After a lot of phonecalls, numerous emails and nights of staring at the ceiling, I finally received the first pics of what to come... I know you all like pics like these... I specifically asked if he could make pictures of this build. These are the pic's Ive got so far.

More will follow as the rear stays will be mitterd and attached to the front triangle.

Can't wait to get this bike out on the trails!!!


BB with setscrew nuts set up for welding:

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Cutting the BB shell mitter on the mill:

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Seattube, BB shell ready to be tacked and welded. Set screw nuts already welded.

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The Torchmaster:

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yes... I like....

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Downtube, toptube and the custom machined, relieved headtube put into the Anvil jig:

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Post welding:

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Front triangle overview before welding:

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As said, more to come....


Find out more info on the craftsman responsible for the building of this Ti art piece:

http://www.crisptitanium.com
 
Its 'clickable' to a bigger sized version which should be readable.

Notice the dropouts aren't in this drawing, since I didn't have the accurate measurements of those during the making of this drawing. The drawing has been slightly altered by Darren Crisp so he could build directly from this drawing. The seattube and downtube are now centered to the center of the BB too.




Tube specs:

Downtube: 38.1mm
Toptube: 34.9mm
Seattube: 34.9mm

The seattube is reinforced with a Paragon seattube insert, to accomodate the 30.9mm seatpost we will make for this frame. The tall extension of the seatpost will stress this area quite a lot, so the insert is used to reinforce the whole area around the seattube/toptube/seatstay junction.
 
As seen on the drawing above, I had a Goosneck stem invisioned for this bike, since I will be using the original WTB Dirt Drops.

From day one that I started this project, Ive been working on getting a Goosneck made. Unfortunatly this hasn't been easy. Actually Ive been working on that even longer, since I need one for my WTB Phoenix SE and Breezer Storm as well. Rick Hunter @Hunter Cycles was willing to give it a try.

This is what we would need;

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Rick didn't had the tools in-house needed to bent the tubes without having the tube buckle or crimp and thus maintaining a constant tube diameter. Time went by and 3 weeks back Rick told me it wasn't going to happen at this point. It proved to be too difficult to get it done in this short time. I asked if he could make a 'standard' quill stem to fit the fork (1 1/8" threaded) so I could ride nevertheless. Rick acted fast and brazed up a nice stem that same day. Shipped it per express over here (the Netherlands) so I could have it painted pretty soon.

His brazing is immaculate, ashame to have it painted actually....

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After painting:

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Next up: the fork.....
 
With the name LeCadre, a friend of mine has been building frames and forks for some time now and he seemed a very capable person to make me a fork for this project.

At first we wanted to copy somewhat of the Type II forks, but the crown-assy seemed to be undoable with the tubes available right now. The second option, which we now got, was a straight bladed, lugluss construction.

I drew my own disc tab and had it cut out of stainless steel. The idea was to have parts of the disc tab covered during painting, so that the contact surfaces for the bolts and caliper would be 'naked'.

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The parts needed;

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Dropouts with eyelets for fenders. We don't use fenders, so off those eyelets go!

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Cutting, filing, fitting, more filing etc, untill it all fitted nicely and could be jigged up for brazing:

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After brazing; Et voilá, c'est un fourche rigide de LeCadre:

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The initial idea of having parts of the stainless steel disc tab unpainted, didn't seem to work out as well as planned. The painter adviced me to paint it completely, since having it masked of, would have created an edge of paint that easily would break. Next time I will make the disc tab differently, with elevated area's so we don't have this problem anymore and can make the idea work.

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(As you can see, the bolts of the disc caliper already left a nasty mark on the tab... )
 
Okay.. got some more pics. The front traingle is complete finished since a few days already. The stay-supplier is taking his time to get us our stays, so Darren can't finish the frame at this point. Hope it will work out soon, since I plan on going to Italy to pick up the frame end next week... fingers crossed.

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Based upon a logo Darren sent me last week, I drew up a design for a headbadge. Had it laser cut out of 1 mm stainless steel. Received several versions today and bent them around a tube to fit the headtube later on.

Im pleased with the result:

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Tuesday 12 September my buddy Ruben and I left for our 7 day trip to pick-up/build-up the finished Ti SS frame. Our first part of the trip (1000km) would lead us to Lago Maggiore, south Switzerland. This would be our ‘home-base’ for the upcomming days, since my bike would be displayed at Milan Bike Show (50 miles down south). We slept there and left for the second stage of our trip wednesday, to drive another 500kms down south into the heart of Italy, to the lovely Tuscane place called Castiglion Fiorentino where Darren Crisp builds his works of art. Late that noon we arrived at his place.

With an impressive view on the surrounding hills around Castiglion Fiorentino we shook hands with Darren and had some small talk about our trip. Let’s go to business, gimme my frame! ;-) Direct aside the drive way to his house, the workshop is located and with the doors open I could make out some fine lines of a titanium structure, hanging in a work stand.

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The hack saw and steel piping you see in the entrance where there, since Darren was busy completing his booth-structure for the Milan Show.

I already saw pictures of the frame coming to live and from the completed front traingle, but I didn’t have any pic’s of the completed frame with the rear end as well. The tubes for the chain and seat stays where only a few days at Darren’s place and I’d almost say my frame was still hot from being welded ;-) Despite 4 days of continuous work on my frame, another frame and the booth for the show, Darren delivered awesome work on my frame! My frame is finally ready to be build into a complete bike. First impressions are important and after 5 months of intensive thinking, drawing, debating, calling, email, etc. about a frame, the expectations where obviously high and being a detailed-kinda guy, I expected at least one thing to be not completely satisfying. And there was one thing that I didn’t planned originally; I wanted zip-tie cable guides for the rear brake. Darren made others to the frame, but I soon noticed they were spot on and should work perfectly, so actually there’s nothing to complain!

As said, I didn’t saw pictures of the rear stays. Having drawn the shape of the tubes myself and carefully measuring all the parts that could/might interfere with these tubes, it was good to see it actually all worked out as planned. The curves I drew where closely matched and made a very solid and clean impression. Im glad this last hurdle turned out just as planned as well. I designed the chainstays such that they didn’t need to be crimped for either tire or chainring clearance. And as with all tubes in this frame 100% round, no ovalizing or whatever. Too bad the company that we used to make these tubes took so long to get them made. Darren had the front traingle already completed for like 3 weeks or so.

Nice to see what a framebuilder like Darren keeps track of during a built. He had a complete file with all my emails, pictures and reference materials I sent hime for this built. Aside he also had numerous sketches of each tube transaction where welding took place. Little notes to how he tacked the tubes and needed to adjust his welding procedure to keep the frame aligned during the first and second pass weld. This way he has a complete fingerprint of the frame and its specific caracteristics during the build.

Every single detail came out as planned and yes, this incorporates even the smallest, perhaps useless details. I drew out every single detail on this frame and Darren build the frame exactly as I wanted it.

Right, we still have two things to do;

- mounting the head tube badge I made myself out of stainless steel onto the frame:

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- deburr the BB shell so the PhilWood EBB would fit perfectly:

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Finally its a 100% completed frame, ready to be build for the Milan Bike Show which would be 2 days later during the weekend. I just had to have a picture of this ‘at last!’ moment… and where better than straight out of the olive garden at the back of Darren’s workshop with on the background Castiglion Fiorentino in the Tuscane hills:

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My bike, Darren’s personal 29er (also equipped with my headbadge), a complete road bike, road frame and a mtb frame would be featured at Darren’s booth at the Milan Bike Show (www.eicma.it) held from 15 till 18 September. For Ruben and myself the task to build up my Sser, prefferable direct 100% rideable ofcourse. It got darker and darker and with fire fly’s, mantii and a nice moonshine keeping us company, we steadily proceded to make it into a complete bike. It didn’t took us long, but the brake’s turned out to be a terrible problem. For some reason the inner and outer cables didn’t work well with the DiaCompe aero levers. I had to drill out and modify the levers and yet still we didn’t get them to work properly. At midnight we decided to leave it this way for now and look into it when we’d be home after the show.

Well, some pictures;

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The bike was finished at around 0.30hr, but the brakes didn’t work great. Still we decided to give it out hand to Darren and head towards bed. Next morning Darren already left at 4 o’clock, without sleep, to Milan. We left that same morning at a more desent time, back to our rented appartment in Switzerland to come back to Milan monday the 18th to pick up the bike at the show to take it home.

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At around 5 o’clock the show was closing down, time to take the bike home. Darren detached the bike from its stand and couldn’t resist, although it only had one pedal and we took of the saddle (borrowed for the show from Selle Italia), making a small ride through the shows hall. ‘Now its officially passed the quality control and you can it home with you’. The many nights without sleep made this Texas guy pretty blurry, but he still was focussed enough to make practicle jokes and give us a good laugh and great time at the show. Finally we shook hands and took the bike back with us.

Resumé; from begin May this year till that very day I spent quite some time on this project, drawing, thinking, emailing, phonecalling etc and its pretty ‘weird’ to finally have something completed that is a direct copy of that what I had in mind. Despite the cost made for this project and the trip to get it here, its worth everything and every effort we took and I can look back at a wonderfull collaboration with a fine crafstman who is very passionate about what he does. We came back with a lot of good memories and this trip will long stay in my mind as being very fun, educational and overall inspiring event.
 
Spec list:

Fork: 1 1/8" LeCadre rigid fork made out of Columbus CrMo tubing, prouldy made in Holland
Stem: Custom-made Rick Hunter (www.huntercycles.com), fillet brazed CrMo 1 1/8" quill-type stem, hopefully soon to be swopped out for a genuine Goosneck stem.
Handlebars: Original WTB Dirt Drop bar
Headset: Chris King 1 1/8" 2Nut
Brake levers: DiaCompe for V-brakes
Brakes: Avid BB7 mechanical, Ø160mm front and rear.
Hubs: PhilWood KissOff SLR
Spokes: DT Competition 2.0-1.8 with brass nipples
Freewheel: White Industries Eno, 18t
Cranks: White Industries ENO, 175 mm
Chainring: Boone Ti, 36t for White Ind. Eno crank
Chain: Sram PC99 met PowerLink
BB: PhilWood Ti, 68x123mm
Pedalls: Time Atac
Seatpost: Crisp 3al/2.5v Ti, Ø30.9mm specifically made for this frame
Seatpost clamp: Hope Ø34.9mm
Saddle: Fizik Aliante Carbon/Ti
Tires: Sworks FastTrak 2.00"

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Nicely executed; appears simple and perhaps it is. Either way, sleek and tight without useless forms and bends, all round tubes:

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Some detail shots:

BB shell with the set screws on the back;

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I insisted on Breezer-style dropouts and to give them a clean look I wanted them to be more ‘inside’ the stays, rather than put on the ‘back’ of them, sticking out. Its pretty tricky to weld along a thin edge as on these dropouts, without having the edge melt by the heat. Darren is true artist:

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I can go on for hours about all the numerous small details that I wanted in this frame. It turned out to be a direct copy of the picture I had in mind and it all seemed to work as well in the complete setup.


Sono molto contento!
 
Well, this weekend was completely devoted to break-in the Sser. Saturday morning I left early to ride my favorite trails, which are a solid hour car drive from my place. The 55 kilometer loop has everything you can imagine, from flat straight sections, to winding singletracks and moderate short climbs. A reall great trail system for singlespeeding.

The whole experience was something unique. The seating position on the bike comes pretty close already to what I thoughed would be ideal based upon my previously used Breeezer setup as a singlespeed with Dirt Drops as well. The saddle should be moved around a bit to get it 100% dailed in.

De bike steer relatively ‘easy’ and is pretty agile, without becoming too sketchy. In loose sand the bike remains very controlable and with a little bit of weight shifting you can tweak it around tuff corners. When going down and picking up speed the bike remains lovely stable and feels pretty balanced. Overall not a bike of extremes in one direction, pretty solidly nested between the geo’s that really work. Its predictable… without weird kicks.

The steel fork is pretty stiff, thats something that does spring out into attention when riding the bike. I have other steel rigids that have more ‘give’. The tall titanium seatpost with its 30.9 mm diameter seems to be perfectly right oposed a thinner 27.2 mm post with the same lenght. This one takes off just enough of the sharpness on the rough sections, without getting the felling of having an undamped Thudbuster seatpost. Imagine yourself riding a path thats completely stirred up by horses. Its hard to keep the pace up since your bouncing all over the place. Well, on sections like this, a long ti seatpost and in my case the pretty flat laying rear end has more than enough ‘give’ to give the impression you’re riding with pretty low pressure, big volume tires. It takes just enough off of the sharpness, which is what I wanted and why I wanted to do this concept with this material.

Basically I can cut it pretty short; that what I designed the bike to do, what I had in mind, it actually does. Pretty weird to actually find nothing ‘big’ that’s not as I wanted it. Torsionall stiffness is good, the bike feels solid and each pedal stroke is directly put into motion of the rear wheel. Yet the compact frame has enough ‘give’ as I wanted it, that became clear pretty soon down the trail. I really didn’t expect it to come this close to my expectations!

I have to admit that Im pretty relieved that I didn’t find ‘anything’ that I wouldn’t like or would have done differently. Im pretty sure this will stay that way. Perhaps the fork will be something to reconsider, but the frame and the overall concept turned out 100% as the picture I had in my head.

Pic shot saturday;

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Sono molto contento! (Im very pleased! ;) )
 
Das war die ganze geschichte... Hab mir samstag wieder ne gute tour gemacht auf das Crisp und ich kann sagen das es mir wirklich auf eine andere planet bringt... wirklich ein schönne erfahrung das dass was ich im design gesteckt habe, es auch wirklich hat!!

Es sind aber noch 2 sachen die geändert werden mussen;

1) das gabel ist viel zu hart. Die balans ist ein bischen weg so und das muss sich sicherlich änderen.

2)Rick Hunter hat sich nicht 100% an meine zeichnung gehalten, das vorbau ist 1,5cm zu lang und steil. Es sieht auch nicht besonders nett aus auf dieses rad. Das lenker ist höher dann das sattel und normalerweise ist die schritt beim Dirt Drop so dass das lenker und sattel ungefähr horizontal mit ein ander sind. Das hat bei mir gearbeitet, aber das lenker ist jetzt zu hoch.

Da wir immer noch ein Goosneck haben mussen, soll das also damit auch geändert werden....

Schüldigung das ich SO viel in eine neue beitrag schon geschrieben habe, aber dieses war also das gesammte geschichte von die letzte monaten bisher. übrich bleiben noch die Bilder die meine gute Freund Coen de Jongh vor 2 wochen gemacht hat weil wir ein 29er zum testen hätte für unseren website www.dirty-pages.net;

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Jeroen van den Brand
 
@ Jeroen
die Story ist interessant und vor allem ausführlich.
Sehr edler Rahmen und sicherlich sehr individuell.
Das stark abfallende Oberrohr und der Drop Bar mit dem (nötigen) steilen Vorbau verunstalten das Radl derart, dass ich es potthäßlich finde. Das ist natürlich Geschmackssache.
Mir gefallen Deine anderen Räder wesentlich besser!!
 
Wie gesagt; das vorbau muss anderes. Ist 1,5-2cm zu hoch und zu steil. Wenn ich das hin bekommen was ich gerne sehen, dann haben wir ein schon gezochen Goosneck vorbau, und haben wir die gleiche 'look' wie eine Cunningham z.B. Kompakter rahmen und ein Dirt Drop.

Hauptsache bei dieses conzept war einfach und ist etwas was ich täglich im meine Beruf benutz; form follows function.
 
Sehr, sehr, sehr schön. :daumen: :daumen:
Da hat mal einer Nägel mit Köpfen gemacht.

Shark is building up a goose neck stem. But I don't know anything about its progress.
 
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