Canyon Torque falling rate?

[MysFarbrorn]

Hi!
(Hope I didnt click any wrong buttons on my way here)

Im a swedish dude who doesnt know any german at all, its pure luck i got this far.

I have searched far and wide for the right bike, and when I suddenly came over the Canyon Torque I knew it was the one. Its equipped with very nice parts for the price, and its light considered its "Federweg"

However. (There is always a catch)

I have read this http://www.bike-magazin.de/bko/bike_artikel/show.php3?id=2439&nodeid=10&ps_lo=5 (with some help of course) and I have also tried to model the frame in the program "Linkage" to simulate the geometry of the frame. Both the article and the simulation tells me that the frame has a falling rate. I understand that this is an attempt to compensate for the rising rate of the Fox Air shock, but the article above tells med that the frame may be abit to degressive (have a to steep falling rate). Also my little simulation (done many times, in order to avoid some of the errors always associated with simulation) shows a steep falling rate, especialy at the end of the compression. I have also heard that the Fox DHX Air 5.0 has very coil-like performance, which also points towards a falling rate for the whole package frame+shock.

I know that the rate of the Fox shock is adjustable but i dont know how much. Is it enough for the falling rate of the frame? or in other words, is the frame over compensating for the progressive air shock.

Another interesting discovery I have made is that a mere look at the frame shows that, because of the short "frame fix link", the shock/link-pivot moves almost perpendiculat to the shocks compression line at full compression. This is what give the radically falling rate at the end of the compression, isn't it?

Before I put 2400€ on a bike I would like to be sure that if I want to I can, with any kind of minor adjustments, get a progressive compression from the whole frame+shock system. Is that possible with this bike?

Thank you for your time.

/MysFarbrorn
Sweden

 

[aemkei77]

Well, it is quite hard to give you a correct answer to this question, since no torque has been delivered yet. And as you might know, usually there is some truth in the test articles of th ebike mags, but often they give the impression, the tester just went around the block without bothering about correct setup etc.
I build this bike by myself with linkage and found quite a degression too, but this may well be compensated by the shock. Now, link movement perpendicular the he shock would indicate progression, if the angle between link and shock rises over 90° than you will have degression.
However, you should ask your question in the Canyon forum and maybe PN Lutz2000 (Canyon Designer Lutz Scheffer) to elucidate this by himself.

I guess the result of frame design and shock progression will be rather linear, not a bike for big drops but with good usage of rear travel.

greetz
Martin

 

[MTB_Daniel]

If your description and simulation is correct, there's no possibility to get a progressive compression from this frame+shock system.

Few people around here do think as far as you do before deciding which frame to buy.

Moreover there are not many people around who know this frame. It's a brand new 2006 model.

I strongly recommend to buy a frame that is on the market for at least 1-2 years.

 

[MysFarbrorn]

Thanks for the reply!

Contacting Lutz here was a good idea, i tryed to mail canyon and the guy that replied said he had forwarded my letter to Lutz, but I got the feeling a reply from Lutzthru canyon might take a while.

I would choose the Torque before the Nerve partly because the Torque is on my top ten good looking bikes and the Nerve is somewhere down the bottom and looks to be meant for XC/AM. But from what i read, they are not so far apart when it comes to drops and such. The Torque seems to be more of a "Trail-glider" with huge swampy suspension, sensitive to drops and the Nerve is good for Rough XC and AM and has good progressive suspension that can stand a few good drops. Maybe as good sa the Torque despite shorter travel.

 

[aemkei77]

you should ask your question in the Canyon forum

now I've seen you already did...

good idea if you want mainly positive feedback ;-)

 

[Mudface]

You are welcome MysFarbrorn,
you are impressed by the lightness? The printed Canyon catalogue says 15.5 to 16 kg if i remember right. I am not sure about the weight of the limited Edition, but it was equipped with light enduro wheels (not Sun Singletracks), no reliable freeride parts.

I heard that people generally ride the dhx 5.0 with very high pressure to compensate bigger drops on other bikes (not the Torque). The damper does not like very high pressures also, the RP3 seems to be a better choice.

The "Bike"-Mag chose the word "Fahrbericht" not "Test" in their print edition. Which ment they rode a prototype. As far as i remember, the Canyon Stuff wrote in this forum, taht they change the upper damper connections after the their field test , because only one of the three positions made sense. Everything was right on their computer simulations and their test bench, but the riding test showed the problem.

But that is just what i have read and heared, i did not ride the bike, i just interested in it by myself.

Bye, Mudface

 

[MysFarbrorn]

Aah, but the webpage says 14,9, Thats what impressed me. But if you say 15,5 -16 it actually sounds more probable, however we will only know for sure until the bikes are delivered.

However that was some very interesting facts you brought me, even if they are just heared or read there may be a lot of truth ...

Keep reading and hearing, and if you feel like it, please write here in english what you know, there are more swedes than me interested in this bike.

When are the first bikes set to be delivered, when is it possible that people with their own torques can write in this forum with personal experience??

 

[Wuudi]

The Torque's are delayed for 2 weeks, and theoretically they should be build this or next week.

So hopefully more reviews will come up soon...


And for the weight. There are 2 Editions of the Torque. The lighter ones (2/Limited) with Talas Fork 14,9/14,4 , Enduro-Rims and Fat-Albert tires, and the heavier ones (1/3) with VAN RC2 15,4/15,7 , Freeride-Rims and Big Betty 2.4

 

[igorion]

i have run the torque through the simulation also (with a very high degree of accuracy).

while it has some degression at the end of the stroke, the amount of that is rather minimal and far from being radically falling.

combining the systems slight degression curve with an approximated damper compression curve gives me an overall curve that has the typical initial air ramp and continues from there with a slight but decisive progression all the way to the end.

while the overall curve is not rising rapidly towards the end (as a hardcore freerider's curve would do), you will definitely not have a falling rate at the end of the stroke...

cheers, hannes